Lobbyists are Financial Beneficiaries
The following is excerpted from a local article posted on August 18, 2011 by terry:
- According to a citizen who took issue with a Roanoke Times editorial published on August 12, the Roanoke Times will publish on Sunday a commentary by Rupert Cutler that will endorse wind turbine development on Poor Mountain. “I have an op-ed from Rupert Cutler scheduled to run in next Sunday’s Horizon about why he has changed his opinion on Poor Mountain,” wrote Luanne Rife in an August 13 email exchange with the citizen.
- Roanoke County hasn’t even adopted the ordinance, with amendments, and yet the Roanoke Times would seek to influence public opinion two days before the County Board of Supervisors meet for a 2nd hearing on the matter.
- It is worth noting that Rupert Cutler was one of the original board members of the Roanoke Valley Cool Cites Coalition (RVCCC). He has also been involved with the Western Virginia Land Trust whose mission is to preserve land and scenic views. Hypocrisy?
- http://199.102.226.152/~chiptarb/
Mr. Cutler has decided at this time, coinciding with Roanoke County's 2nd reading of a zoning ordinance amendment, to declare his support for a controversial expenditure of technology and Federal funding.
In my experience, the research conducted by the vast majority of people interested in the benefits of renewable energy resources remains on a very surface level. To thoroughly understand the viability of currently implemented wind energy technologies requires an extensive amount of mathematical calculation. Most people are not prepared or inclined to dedicate the expense of real time required to perform such evaluation.
That's OK> Most of us need to rely on the conclusions of others. When we do our research, we must make decisions about which sources to accept or reject. This is where we start straying from our starting point of seeking the truth. From this point forward our conclusions will be no truer than our personal judgement, however influenced (or manipulated).
So, What we do? We all try to manipulate each other, Arrrgh, Oh no, that's why I retreated back to Poor Mountain 36 years ago.
In my experience, the research conducted by the vast majority of people interested in the benefits of renewable energy resources remains on a very surface level. To thoroughly understand the viability of currently implemented wind energy technologies requires an extensive amount of mathematical calculation. Most people are not prepared or inclined to dedicate the expense of real time required to perform such evaluation.
That's OK> Most of us need to rely on the conclusions of others. When we do our research, we must make decisions about which sources to accept or reject. This is where we start straying from our starting point of seeking the truth. From this point forward our conclusions will be no truer than our personal judgement, however influenced (or manipulated).
So, What we do? We all try to manipulate each other, Arrrgh, Oh no, that's why I retreated back to Poor Mountain 36 years ago.
Do you have any idea who is behind all the green "We support wind power...it's patriotic" lawn signs that have popped up, especially along Grandin Rd. Ext? I posed this question on a RT blog, but never received a response.
ReplyDeleteMost people polled by Roanoke College support wind turbines in this area. I heard those signs are being put up by local people who believe wind turbines are a good thing.
ReplyDeleteI like those signs. They're positive and they're truthful. It's about time somebody started telling the truth about wind-powered electricity around here. I heard the Tea Party (I know, you laugh whenever you hear them mentioned) actually says wind turbines are part of a United Nations Communist plot to take over Roanoke County. Buwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how Industrial Wind Turbines can be patriotic....
ReplyDeleteParts made in other countries, magnet material mined in China, Tax payer money given to large corporations,forests kept in a state of perpetual clearcut, birds and bats killed year after year, folks property values lowered, mountains forever changed by introducing GIANT turbines.
And for what? The power produced is so intermittent and small compared to other technologies.
A recent study by the Virginia Scientists and Engineers for the Environment, concluded it would take 1,000 SQUARE MILES of turbines to POTENTIALLY produce the same amount of power as two medium sized 2,000 MW power plants. And the kicker is you still need the conventional plants, because in order for the turbines to produce that power at their maximum, the wind needs to be blowing 33MPH all of the time.
Yeah, its real patriotic to throw these things up everywhere.
"Somebody" had to pay for the signs...who?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 10:41AM is correct. The two before that make sounds as green windy-millie air heads. They know nothing of mechanics or engineering. Their remarks indicate that. The proper of any kind wind generators should be the ones indicated in Science Daily online. 30' tall columnar positioned in proper alignment generates triple the power plus and can be located in any area and delivers outstanding performance. Available to residents for the same tax credits given for solar panels. But, "NO", greenies would prefer the chinese loaned money be given to the big deception wind farming industry looking to grab the stimulus money and leave to allow this boondoggle to mechanically fail and they will burn the mountains down. How will the forestry department like that? How will the tourist like that? How will the asthmatics like breathing that carbon footie? Wake up wind mill air heads. Our mountain tops are not the place to allow money grabbers to burn our forest. Put those monsters in desserts and oceans. When they burn to the ground they will be too far away to burn our mountains. Please, open your mind and get the air out. You many grow some gray matter to think with instead of going greenie weenie deceived by the wind farm industry.
ReplyDeleteWow, some people are touchy when it comes to wind turbines! I might not be a rocket surgeon, but even I can tell the claims made in the 4:49 PM and 10:41 AM posts are over-the-top. It's no wonder people look at the Tea Party and other opponents of wind turbines the way they do.
ReplyDeleteI find it curious that the Tea Party has been ridiculed twice so far in this comment thread and with no proclaimed affiliation by those commenting. Is it the Tea Party you fear or is it the truth?
ReplyDeleteThe facts of the matter are that industrial wind turbines are an unreliable source of energy that is heavily subsidized by the federal government. That means we are paying for it whether we like it or not. The energy produced at this stage of technological development is not cost efficient and will cost consumers more in electric bills. The very nature of the energy produced by wind is difficult to incorporate into the energy grid and creates yet another set of problems. Noise is another aspect that is not properly addressed in the proposed County ordinance, along with the property rights of adjacent property owners. I could go on.....
Now, I am a member of the RTP and you are welcome to refute anything I said with documentation. Until you can do so, don't rely on ridicule to be an effective tool as that is one of the last resorts of the ignorant or uneducated.
A friend of mine works for Roanoke County. County employees had heard contradictory predictions of intolerable noise from wind turbines from opponents, and claims that at distances of 500 feet or more, their noise is uutterly insignificant, even in high winds, from supporters. They decided to take a field trip to a wind farm in WV to find out for themselves. They brought equipment for measuring and quantifying noise, and measured it at specific distances, across the sound spectrum from low to high frequencies. Conclusion: Not only are commercial wind turbines relatively quiet, the credibility of their opponents is highly suspect.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 8:22 am Aug 21: Why doesn't your friend post those noise measurements broken down into the standard eight octave bands (high to low freq) at the specific distances so we can all see them since this would be important information for everyone to see? Let us know when the last time the noise meter was calibrated by a third party certified instrument calibration outfit. Keep in mind that the wind turbines at the site you visited are smaller than the turbines that are proposed for Poor Mountain. Then take a look at this video in its entirety:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyOImGHyJtQ&feature=related
After watching the video in its entirety, go back to 3:40 in the video called "car vs. turbine". The wind turbine is located 1100 ft from where the video was taken. Can you hear the car from 800 ft away? The Roanoke County ordinance has a min setback of 2640 ft from existing dwelling units. This is a little over twice the distance exhibited in the video. If you understand acoustics you would know that a doubling of distance reduces sound pressure (SPL) 6 db. So, the estimated noise level at 2640 ft from the turbines would be only 7.6 db less (difference) than what is heard in this video. A 5 db difference is noticeably perceptible change in noise level. A 10 db difference is would be half as loud. So, a 7.6 db difference would be characterized as approximately between 60 to 80% the sound pressure heard in the video starting at 3:40. I don't think people at property lines 2640 ft from these turbines are going to want to hear noise levels between 60 to 80% the sound pressure heard in the video.
Why doesn't your friend post those noise measurements broken down into the standard eight octave bands (high to low freq) at the specific distances so we can all see them since this would be important information for everyone to see? Let us know when the last time the noise meter was calibrated by a third party certified instrument calibration outfit. Keep in mind that the wind turbines at the site you visited are smaller than the turbines that are proposed for Poor Mountain. Then take a look at this video in its entirety:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyOImGHyJtQ&feature=related
After watching the video in its entirety, go back to 3:40 in the video called "car vs. turbine". The wind turbine is located 1100 ft from where the video was taken. Can you hear the car from 800 ft away? The Roanoke County ordinance has a min setback of 2640 ft from existing dwelling units. This is a little over twice the distance exhibited in the video. If you understand acoustics you would know that a doubling of distance reduces sound pressure (SPL) 6 db. So, the estimated noise level at 2640 ft from the turbines would be only 7.6 db less (difference) than what is heard in this video. A 5 db difference is noticeably perceptible change in noise level. A 10 db difference is would be half as loud. So, a 7.6 db difference would be characterized as approximately between 60 to 80% the sound pressure heard in the video starting at 3:40. I don't think people at property lines 2640 ft from these turbines are going to want to hear noise levels between 60 to 80% the sound pressure heard in the video.
@ 11:51 PM: I call BS on you. I've visited modern wind farms and I know firsthand that even on windy days they simply are not that noisy from that distance.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of the misguided young man who spoke at a Roanoke County hearing on small wind turbines. He warned us that large ones are like "a helicopter that never lands," and then played an amplified recording he downloaded from an anti-wind website. Highly theatrical, but unimpressive.
Anonymous at 8:43 am: The facts are all layed out for you to see. These are laws of acoustics. Do you think the noise level heard in the youtube video above at 1100 ft was made up and acoustical laws don't apply in extrapolating noise levels a little over twice the distance of 1100 ft? The County should have commissioned an acoustical consultant months ago to perform an analysis of the estimated noise level at the property line around the proposed site. Have they? NO. Are they afraid to? The acoustical consultant could have estimated the noise level at the property line knowing the following: Turbine location relative to property line/dwelling locations, topography maps, published sound power levels of the turbines. The consultant would throw these factors into an acoustic program and come up with the results. This is something that would not take long to do had the County chosen to do it.
ReplyDeleteThe acoustical consultant could have also helped the County write the noise setback and max noise level at property line portion of the ordinance. I don't believe any of this has been done. In fact, we would all like to know what experts were consulted to arrive at the minimum setback and max noise levels at the property line/dwelling locations currently found in the ordinance.
All of us would like to see your friend's noise measurements at the various distances he took them at especially if he was acting in an official capacity at that site visit.
If the opponents of building a wind farm on Poor Mountain really cared about the facts, they would have done what Rupert Cutler did. They would have visited a modern wind farm. What were they afraid of? The possibility that they might have to tell their friends that they no longer oppose it? Is it really better just to stay angry, avoid the field trip, and quote some anti-wind-turbines nonsense from the internet?
ReplyDeleteLook, these are going to be built, whether you like it or not, and you'll be better off if you learn the truth about how unobtrusive they are. The pro-wind folks only need three votes for these to be approved, and they probably have four. It's over.
You've invested a lot of time and energy in a futile fight. Invest a few more hours visiting a wind farm in nearby West Virginia, and most of you will realize the fear was much ado about false claims.
Anoymous @ 4:53 pm: "Look, these are going to be built, whether you like it or not, and you'll be better off if you learn the truth about how unobtrusive they are. The pro-wind folks only need three votes for these to be approved, and they probably have four. It's over.
ReplyDeleteYou've invested a lot of time and energy in a futile fight. Invest a few more hours visiting a wind farm in nearby West Virginia, and most of you will realize the fear was much ado about false claims"
I could not help to think about wartime radio propagandists Hanoi Hannah and Tokyo Rose reading that! I particularly like, "Look, these are going to be built, whether you like it or not, and you'll be better off if you learn the truth about how unobtrusive they are."
Wind Energy......It's Patriotic.....whether you like it or not.
Still waiting to hear who paid for the "It's Patriotic" signs...
ReplyDeleteHi anonymous (8-23-2011 - 8:07 am)
ReplyDeleteLast night my wife told me that a friend told her that while in a heated discussion with Diana Christopulos over the words, "It's Patriotic", Ms. Christopulos denied responsibility for the signs, exclaiming that it was the work of her partner, Mark McClain. My wife's friend declared the END of her loyal friendship with Christopulos and McClain.
Both are officers in and the driving force behind the Roanoke Valley Cool Cities Coalition.
"Look, these are going to be built, whether you like it or not, and you'll be better off if you learn the truth about how unobtrusive they are. " Sounds like a threat to me. To all proponents of wind turbines: live with them for 30+ years and then come talk to me. Please don't insult my intelligence by insisting that an afternoon visit to a wind farm tells you anything, except that they are huge. Why is it that every proponent of these wind turbines ends up getting apopleptic right before they absolutley explode? Astonishing.
ReplyDeleteWhy would an afternoon visit to a wind farm not tell you anything except that they are huge? Why couldn't it also tell you subjectively (and quantitatively if you bring a decibel-meter) how little noise they really make in whatever speed winds happen to occur during that visit? Are wind farm opponents really interested in truth, or are they just practicing NIMBYism and avoiding the truth by avoiding a trip to a modern (not 30 years old) wind farm?
ReplyDeleteI've visited a wind farm. It's part of how I became a supporter. Why haven't many of the opponents visited one? Are you afraid of what you might learn?